Dang I wiped out my comment on Peter’s blog. What was I saying? Well, I’ll try to reconstruct it here since I don’t anticipate having anything else to post in the near future.
Oh yes. Tomlin’s song is B-A-D. Talk about doggerel. Rips off a hymn. Has a boring melody. He’s got some great stuff. But not that one.
I think we probably agree on Delirious? Their old stuff was terrific. Do you have the orange vault DVD with all the crazy videos? I love Martin’s English twang. They were nuts. Now they’ve grown tame and slid into the worship craze. Just like Newsboys. You know Steve Taylor stopped producing them after they started doing worship albums because their music was too boring.
Worship has to be boring because you’re trying to get a bunch of unmusical people to sing together so the words, melody and rhythms can’t be too complicated.
God give us another Bach in our generation. Please, God, before I die and have to spend eternity listening to Mercy Me with all the other saints in heaven.
19 responses so far ↓
Pacesetters Bible School Newsletter » Blog Archive » Is Worship Music Boring? // April 9, 2008 at 9:53 pm
[...] on over to this post on worship music, and [...]
Parke // April 9, 2008 at 11:15 pm
so do we want to be going to Sunday morning concerts? i’m not so sure…
Jim // April 9, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Oh that kind of filth that passes for ‘music’ won’t be allowed in heaven. Just Mozart, the Bachs, and the Haydns. Nothing else. (Please, God, nothing else… or it won’t be very heavenly).
bobmacdonald // April 10, 2008 at 2:03 am
For once I agree with Jim
eclexia // April 10, 2008 at 4:14 am
I can only imagine…
ElShaddai Edwards // April 10, 2008 at 4:17 am
I’m sure that God will let Bruckner be heard as well, even if he was Catholic who drank beer.
Scruffy // April 10, 2008 at 8:30 am
Maybe I am taking the comments here to seriously. I don’t know the people who comment here, so maybe there is a kind of innocent humor here that I am missing. If that is the case, then I am more than happy to laugh at myself afterward.
With this post I am risking to take things completely out of context. So as a disclaimer, let me also say that even though my post may come across as “strong”, please trust me when I say I am not nearly as uptight about these things as I portray in the post. Merely stating an opinion in a forum like this makes it seems “strong”. In a personal, relational setting the same comments would seem much less “venomous”. I would like to assume the same about the comments already posted here, namely that if I actually knew the people posting, I would know to not add too much weight to the comments, and that in the bigger scheme of things, these comments are actually just lighthearted subjective bantering, which we can all laugh about. Amongst my friends we chuckle about the same things - there is nothing sinister about it per se. I suspect that this is the case here. And if it is, then please, don’t even read further, because my post is irrelevant and totally out of context. But just in case this is NOT so …..
I thank God he is not like us - stuck up on our own subjective opinions of what it supposedly good and not - and choosing one form of “worship” or “entertainment” over another. To think that whatever one prefers (and I include myself in this) is in some way “superior” to what others prefer, just shows how much we still don’t understand, and how much we still feed our pride and superiority in subtle ways. How do Christians get it right to make such a big thing out of something that is really trivial?
There a place for everything, from for classical, metal, run-of-the-mill-worship, rock, pop, techno and whatever other ‘filth’ that is out there. Personally I have enjoyed some of those really bad songs, even though they lack something when compared to bach. And I know others who have enjoyed them too. Just because you don’t enjoy them, don’t ridicule the valid experiences of others, even though they are “inferior” experiences to yours. God will use anything, however supposedly inferior, to get to the heart of people, and it is utterly foolish to think that God has the same preferences in these things as we do. Compared to what God has heard in the heavens, Bach is probably like kindergarden music, yet we look down on another person’s honest attempt at expressing something of what God has put in their hearts, and then we say “That is boring. We know better how to make true authentic heavenly music”. BAH! Your heart has already made your music un-heavenly (I know there is no such word). Compared to what is in store, nothing we produce on this earth probably sounds good. God simply enjoys all forms of kiddy music we make for him - from Bach to Michael W Smith.
It’s like one child saying to another “my music is better than yours”, and it probably is slightly better, because the one child did train a bit more than the other. But it only sounds good to us because we haven’t heard better … yet. With nothing else to compare to, no other measuring stick, the differences between one form or another seems big - until another measuring stick comes along and the difference is so big that the previous differences suddenly seem trivial. This is what it will be like one day.
And no, this kind of worship music is by far not the predominant music that I listen too. I actually do have Vivaldi, Dvorak and Bach. I also have U2, Collective Soul, Audio Slave, Travis, Coldplay. I also have Dave Brubeck and Miles Davis. I also have DJ Tiesto, Logic Bomb and Moby. I also have Keith Green, John M Talbot, Newsboys and Chris Tomlin. And depending on the context I enjoy them all.
All I can say about people getting into silly debates like this is … whatever.
And before someone mentions it … yes, I know, by sending this post, and especially by expressing a strong opinion, I myself became one of them
Lastly, I am all for more excellence in music. I am just not phased so much about what form of music. Whether we write better classical pieces portraying something of God or whether we write better mainstream “worship” songs, or whether they be hymns or rock music or yes, even techo. God will take his glory from it all, and there will always be people somewhere who will enjoy it, whatever form it takes, even though it may be boring for some. While we wait for the better stuff to come along, I will enjoy what we have in the meantime.
I think this discussion is bigger than just music. And off course, I am much better than most, having seen the light and all
Peter Kirk // April 10, 2008 at 11:56 am
Thanks, Scruffy, for your excellent comment. Some of what you have read is just banter (at least I hope it is, Jim). But what you say is right on the nail, not as a rebuke for any individual but as general principles for our worship.
lingalinga // April 10, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Scruffy, you’re right on and if my post was out of line (not unusual for me) I’m glad at least that it provoked your comment.
I’m throwing cream pies at two extremes. On one side is the extreme of saying, “Only the old stuff is any good.” On the other side is the extreme where we treat sacred music like pop music. Songs of worship are climbing popularity charts and then fading away. There’s something really repulsive about that.
Our worship should be excellent. I think excellence occurs in many of the genres you spoke of. But also a lot of drivel. If our worship is directed at God we should be perfecting it without reference to pop charts and what the market is buying.
There’s more to say, but I’m on my lunch break and need to worry about excellence in Bible translation not excellence in blogging!
Scruffy // April 10, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Thanks for the replies. I feel much better and understand the intention now
>>> I think excellence occurs in many of the genres you spoke of. But also a lot of drivel. If our worship is directed at God we should be perfecting it without reference to pop charts and what the market is buying.
I cannot agree more.
Jim // April 10, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Scruffer, for shame! Suggesting that modern rubbish is on a par with Bach. For shame, for shame, for shame.
From evolution to a rant on worship: round-up » MetaCatholic // April 10, 2008 at 10:40 pm
[...] rant mode on now. This is provoked by Dave Walker, Lingamish and Peter Kirk. <RANT>The word “worship” does not mean “singing a [...]
Quote: “They want me to write differently…” « He is Sufficient // April 11, 2008 at 2:59 am
[...] Posted on April 10, 2008 by ElShaddai Edwards To somewhat seriously follow up on a throwaway comment I made on Lingamish regarding God’s choice of heavenly music, here is a quote from one of my [...]
Scripture Zealot // April 11, 2008 at 5:30 am
I understand that (contemporary) worship music to be sung in church might need to be simple and often without harmony so that people can easily sing along with it. But this makes me get tired of them so fast. It’s like Christmas carols (sorry, I don’t like them) or the Sound of Music (bleck). And when people play these simple songs for their own entertainment I don’t want to be around.
That’s my whine.
Thanks for your post Scruffy. It was good for me to read.
Jeff
Peter Kirk // April 11, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Agreed, Jeff. That is why it is good that new worship songs keep coming in and old ones gradually disappear. A few of them are good enough to stand the test of time. Others, like many Christmas carols, are artificially perpetuated when they should have been put out to grass decades ago. But there are so many hymns and songs, from all decades and in all styles, which are no longer sung and usually for very good reasons.
David Ker // April 12, 2008 at 7:23 am
Hi
David Ker // April 12, 2008 at 6:14 pm
ho
Laura // April 13, 2008 at 10:41 pm
…hum.
I think at times people put the cart before the horse.
If the heart is aligned with the Spirit, the right music will almost certainly come forth of its own accord.
-L
David Ker // April 14, 2008 at 7:36 am
Amen, sister.
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